Wed night Fun Races (2021)

[Beng Bandrover]

Loaded up the toyota and selected drive. The track looked washed out




So, out of interest tried another car, GT3 911



Am curious as why this would be?

What HUD are you using?

[Ricknau]

I dont think it gets worse with laps i think the heat of battle makes you forget to lift quick enough

I think you're right.

I get that it's a real thing with some cars. And I'd be fine with it if is wasn't such a struggle to recover from. I'd surmise that the recovery characteristic is not modelled very well. Like I said, I've tried various recovery techniques. Sometimes it will re-grab fairly quickly but sometimes it requires 3 or 4 various attempts and in the end I'm not sure what it is that makes it finally succeed. That's kinda what I was asking in my post. Is there a certain technique that will recover it consistently?

I like your idea of a mapping a deadzone for the throttle. I'll give that a try.

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

I would not thought, with the number of people who access that server, bandwidth would be a problem. For me I simply checked the Mod Mgr and which told me it was the cars that were missing so went to the RF2 Workshop and got them. However for the less experienced, they would try to join, it fails and they give up. I would have thought we want to encourage as many people as poss to join?

As I said, I *always*, always, always try to put the files in the Packages directory so that casual access drivers (of which we’ve had a few) can get straight on the server. JR used not to, as a rule.

The way we get content onto the server (anonymous Workshop downloads for Steam content, direct downloads for everything else) - and the lack of auto-updating - occasionally means that there are version mis-matches etc. Typically, a version of a car/track will be installed as content on the server but the rfcmp has been deleted at some point. I come along, build the mod from the installed content and then go off and try to find the rfcmp (because I always, *always* try to put in in Packages, remember ) - but fail to notice that the rfcmp is more recent… If such a thing happens - let me know!

I don’t know what kind of bandwidth-charging scheme SR4L runs under - but downloads of content are likely to be much more hungry than the actual sim traffic (some tracks and cars are hundreds of Meg - I’d be somewhat surprised if a ten-driver 30 minute race chewed up even a fraction of that - so if we can keep downloads to casuals and the lazier SR4L members - all to the good!

I think you're right.

I get that it's a real thing with some cars. And I'd be fine with it if is wasn't such a struggle to recover from. I'd surmise that the recovery characteristic is not modelled very well. Like I said, I've tried various recovery techniques. Sometimes it will re-grab fairly quickly but sometimes it requires 3 or 4 various attempts and in the end I'm not sure what it is that makes it finally succeed. That's kinda what I was asking in my post. Is there a certain technique that will recover it consistently?

I like your idea of a mapping a deadzone for the throttle. I'll give that a try.

Are you using Auto Clutch at all? (The one-and-only aid permitted on the server?)

I *thought* I was but checked yesterday and was not. Haven’t tested it again yet, but I can see that it might go either way - I.e. make changes more reliable *or* make them a complete nightmare.

I also checked Motec again after trying the Toyotas and missing a gear a couple of times on an easily identifiable lap (had to trawl through all the races to try and find the excerpts I posted earlier). Whereas in the previous example I appear to have only needed a slight lift to re-engage the gear, it looks like I probably usually do another complete lift most of the time. The speed (curve) of throttle application might benefit from relaxation too (guess?)

[Ricknau]

Are you using Auto Clutch at all? (The one-and-only aid permitted on the server?)

Yes, I have always used auto-clutch. I've have always been a paddle shifter and so have always let the car's computer (ie the sim) do the "clutching" for me. But your post has made me explore that situation. Up until now my clutch pedal as never even been mapped into the sim. So I activated the clutch and turned auto-clutch off. And yea verily, popping the clutch pedal in and out will get a slipping clutch to grab! Woohoo! BUT... with auto-clutch off, down shifts become a big problem. That is, it's up to me to do the rev matching! Arrgh! But tinkering a bit more I find that I can have my cake and eat it too! I can leave auto-clutch on to help the downshifting and still just pop the clutch pedal when I get slippage!

I know paddle shifting in every chassis is totally a gaming crutch but hey, I need all the help I can get. If I can ever achieve competitiveness using crutches I might consider going "realistic". But that's a big "if". You guys don't need to fear me... yet! (And oh yeah did map a deadzone into my throttle.)

I'm ready for a re-do at Zandvoort!

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

Yes, I have always used auto-clutch. I've have always been a paddle shifter and so have always let the car's computer (ie the sim) do the "clutching" for me. But your post has made me explore that situation. Up until now my clutch pedal as never even been mapped into the sim. So I activated the clutch and turned auto-clutch off. And yea verily, popping the clutch pedal in and out will get a slipping clutch to grab! Woohoo! BUT... with auto-clutch off, down shifts become a big problem. That is, it's up to me to do the rev matching! Arrgh! But tinkering a bit more I find that I can have my cake and eat it too! I can leave auto-clutch on to help the downshifting and still just pop the clutch pedal when I get slippage!

I know paddle shifting in every chassis is totally a gaming crutch but hey, I need all the help I can get. If I can ever achieve competitiveness using crutches I might consider going "realistic". But that's a big "if". You guys don't need to fear me... yet! (And oh yeah did map a deadzone into my throttle.)

I'm ready for a re-do at Zandvoort!

I tried auto-clutch briefly this afternoon and didn’t like it much on these cars - it seems to over-Rev even on an upshift.

I, too, use flappy-paddles for everything - despite having a TH8 shifter fitted. The manual clutch isn’t fully used in rf2 (auto-clutch on or off) and generally is only needed to get off the line. As noted in my Motec extracts, for downshifts (again - pretty much irrespective of whether I’m driving a historic, modern - or even my IRL 1963 Land Rover) I just blip the throttle (seemingly) as I pull the shift paddle - seems to work for me.

I also tried the Toyota Celica - and Nissan (2000GT?) alongside the B110 at Cadwell. The Datsun does appear to be the overall quickest and best compromise. Both the Toyota and Nissan have dreadful brakes by comparison - which could make for interesting multi+vehicle racing against the Datsun… …except that the Toyota seems to be a second or so off the pace.

The Nissan 2000GT (I think that’s what it is) is much more comparable and I managed to post a similar 1:40.X time offline (with the same track rubber) as I did online with the Datsun… I’m tempted to reload the server over the weekend adding in the Nissan but suspect not many people will go for it…

[Edvvc]

Manual clutch does have advantages beyond just the start. I find it helps when jumping gears and downshifting for example braking into the hairpin at Zandvoort National, and having control of when to re-engage, sometimes with a bit of overrevving beforehand to kick the backend out.

[Ricknau]

Manual clutch does have advantages beyond just the start. I find it helps when jumping gears and downshifting for example braking into the hairpin at Zandvoort National, and having control of when to re-engage, sometimes with a bit of overrevving beforehand to kick the backend out.

Ah Ha!! So that's how you managed to squeeze to the inside and over take on exit at that corner!! I guess I'll start playing around more with the clutch.

[Ricknau]

So you guys who don't use auto-clutch... when braking for a corner do you just hold the clutch in and cycle down to your cornering gear and then engage the clutch? My downshifts are so quick and braking so late, like modern F1, so there's no time for clutching and blipping while braking. (not to mention I don't have the skill)

[Edvvc]

The Datsun certainly doesn't have F1 brakes, so there's relatively quite a bit of time to slow down the car on just the brakes then think about the gears. At Zandvoort tarzan corner for example I slammed the brakes on at 100 metres (5th gear, clutch engaged) and didn't think about gears until near the apex where I disengage and slot directly into either 2nd or 3rd (can't remember which) being careful to rev match and engage clutch at the right time so as not to upset the car. That seemed to work very well and was my favourite corner there in that car.

I'd love to know who else is using manual clutch. I believe [USER=198]@Hedlund[/USER] does and it was he that inspired me to go full manual during the '73 Porsche RSR season.

[Ricknau]

Thanks Ed, I may give that a try. Rev matching once when applying power will take some practice but doesn't seem too difficult.

[giorgetto giaguaro]

I love and use to go with manual clutch. It depends from what car are you driving, someone forgive your mistakes, some other requires good timing with the pedals. I personally have always prefered to go as the real life car, once you habit you go naturally and it is more immersive to me.

[Keeper]

How about these for one night
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...=685802767

Been a while, but yes, we did run them!

[Ricknau]

The Datsun does appear to be the overall quickest and best compromise. Both the Toyota and Nissan have dreadful brakes by comparison - which could make for interesting multi+vehicle racing against the Datsun… …except that the Toyota seems to be a second or so off the pace.

Based on this I think I will stick with the Datsun. Don't need a further handicap of racing a more difficult or challenged car. Plus I'm happy to finally have a handle on the slipping clutch.

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

Based on this I think I will stick with the Datsun. Don't need a further handicap of racing a more difficult or challenged car. Plus I'm happy to finally have a handle on the slipping clutch.

Hurrah!

[Petrolhead]

Hmm, not sure I like these cars especially aftermy abysmal race 1 and 2

However did a bit of fettling and at least I don't crash on the first bend

[cookie]

just hit retirement so i am free in the afternoon , will look for it next week if i get the time zone sorted

[Myles (Mr Fox)]

just hit retirement so i am free in the afternoon , will look for it next week if i get the time zone sorted

Great stuff! Look forward to seeing you soon.

For this week coming, we’re off to Oulton Park International (no chicane version) as Deecee (and others) fondly remember this track working well with the Datsun B110s…

…but I’ve also swapped the second vehicle option from the Toyota Celica to the Nissan Skyline 2000GTR…

I did a bit of testing this afternoon - the laptimes of the two cars seem fairly comparable (closer than the Toyota was) with the Datsun still probably the quicker option…

…but the heavier Skyline has more power and a higher top speed (but poor brakes and a very bouncy rear end) so the two straights could/should be interesting with a mix of cars outdragging each other before the Datsuns try to nip by under braking and around the corners.

That’s the theory anyway - let’s give it a shot…

[Ricknau]

just hit retirement so i am free in the afternoon , will look for it next week if i get the time zone sorted

Congrats ex-teamie!! Me too. Went out in February. Hoping to see you on track this Wed. Qualy is at 1:30 Central Daylight Time.

[deecee52]

just hit retirement so i am free in the afternoon , will look for it next week if i get the time zone sorted

Congrats John , welcome to the world of peace and leisure , until the wife gets busy on the job list that is

[Ricknau]

For this week coming, we’re off to Oulton Park International (no chicane version)

I had it previously subscribed in Steam and it is downloaded into the packages folder but it isn't installed. When I try to install it manually in-game from the packages screen it says there is a missing mod. ???